*PRODUCERS*

[Kid Dynamite]

nope....just djs.....j/k!

[Tmouse]

Originally posted by Kid Dynamite
nope....just djs.....j/k!

Paddy???

[Kid Dynamite]

in other words people "play" producer for the most part...its part of the oh im a dj/producer/dicksucker thing....if someone is producing...they would say something besides...i have fruity loops. im not dissing fruity loops cause i use it. im saying it takes a lot of knowledge and gear to really produce "quality" tracks.

[OCTAL]

Hi my name is Ryan and I'm a producer.
I use Reason 2.0.
:)

[Matthew Skye]

Hey jj, I got the Korg MS2000 :o) Working on figuring out how to use it...


im saying it takes a lot of knowledge and gear to really produce "quality" tracks.

true.

[OCTAL]

Not entirely true.
Reason can do anything that hardware can do. And better.
But both of these are opinions. :)

[Kid Dynamite]

no octal...your right...reason can do anything that hardware can do cause you can sample hardware and use it inside reason....but you must have the hardware to sample...if you only limit your sampling to reason...then you are limited as to what you can do....notice earlier i said fruity loops....not reason. i could sample a 303 from rebirth/reason....or i can sample my homade 303....i bet you cant replicate that....reason plays pre sampled waveforms....but its good to have hardware synths/drum machines/samplers....if you think its the same after playing with some hardware....then id be suprised...there is a lot of cool gear out there....ask sheepy...he just got the korg ms-2000 .....have you gotten drunk and played with the vocoder yet??? its a blast....sorry if i offended ryan.....i just wanted to stir shit up.....later....k.d.

[Matthew Skye]

Nope, but within the next week i plan to acquire a mic of some sort and some midi cables...

Im trying to incorperate hardware and reason, maybe using samples from the MS2000 in reason, to achieve some more original sounds and better sound quality. Probly going to see if it works as a controller for reason too, but i dont know if it will. You can basically make your own sounds from scratch with the MS2000 right?

...looking at all my possibilites to see what works best i guess.

[OCTAL]

Well that's why we have refills and patches. I don't have hardware to sample from, so I download the patches to make the software sound like hardware.
And I don't believe in copy and pasting loops. It's not creation. It's duplication.

Well I love Reason, it's simply incredible. I like to be able to paint all my own notes and tones and tweeks in the sequencer. I like to make it all perfect. And to me, it's better than recording from what your fingers are doing on a keyboard. :)

[extalin]

hell yeah Octal, we see it the same exact way. i never use loops because i feel like its cheating or taking a short cut. As for the hardware vs. software thing, i think they are different and that one isnt necessarily better than the other one. Reason is very versatile though and your space for patches is practically unlimitted compared to a hardware sampler/synth and also, with reason you can duplicate the gear so if you want to have 10 different samplers running all at once its all good, where as in real life, it would be very expensive to have all that gear. Also, i really love the sequencer in reason, and i think one day when i have the money i will be using a software sequencer on my computer with a combination of software and hardware all wired together for production because a software sequencer is so nice for editing and tweaking every little knob and control, but there will always be times when hardware will do something the software can't quite get right, but until im rich Reason is almost all i need on the non-recording side of things.

-robert

[Kid Dynamite]

the real question is...if you had all the hardware....would you use it???? and when you get done at the end of the day...what do you really know about production....i can run reason...but can you run my midi rig??? i doubt it....

[OCTAL]

BUT how WELL can you run Reason and can you make it sound like (someone who knows the software in and out) can make it sound? Reason can do a LOT of things that Hardware cannot as well.
And it doesn't matter WHAT you use, if you make a quality sounding track that doesn't sound simple, you are a producer.

If I had the money for hardware, I'd use both. If I had that cash for hardware, or if I've ever been around it long enough to hit all the buttons, I'd know how to use it. I'm into the software, and Reason 2.0 can create sounds just as rich as any hardware can.

I might not know how to use your midi rig, but if you give me one hour on it...

[Kid Dynamite]

wow...i guess your the one i need to ask about production .... sorry i know nothing....im out of this crap....back home to my "not so reason" midi rig that takes an hour to learn.....sorry to exist.

[Kid Dynamite]

besides...i use reason...i use everything....thats my point...all the gear is just colors on a pallete.....i never dissed reason....i never dissed fruity loops....i only stated that everyone ive ever talked to that is into production uses BOTH SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE! some people only produce on the computer....thats great... some people use only hardware...thats fine.....but its better to use both......when rebirth first came out {the first all in one type of program} people said i dont need hardware now....well its the same thing. it takes years of screwing around with it all to actually find what does what the best......maybe im wrong...maybe reason is your own personal jesus, whatever. im speaking from the perspective of someone who has been into it a long time. anything can be better than anything else if the right person is at the wheel......later

[OCTAL]

Sorry, I really didn't mean to offend you. I wasn't sure if you knew anything about Reason. I didn't say I knew a lot about production, I'm just telling you that I've never used hardware aside from a Keyboard. What I know about production is through software. That's what I know: Reason. So all I'm saying is that I hardware can do what software can do and software can do what hardware can do. And like you said, it depends on the person and their knowledge of THAT particular piece of equipment. Whether it be hardware or software.

[OCTAL]

:)

[Kid Dynamite]

its alright man....pp has been quite f-cked up lately...there is one thing i always tell people.....use the shit out of your computer and sample it.......thats all reason does when it renders a track.... after a while you see each piece of software as a tool...its like having a real tb-303.....if you play with one once....you realize while it is so sought after....rebirth is good.....but a 303 is better..... ive found out that the best thing you can do is play with all of it and find what does something the best. i have a roland tr-909 at home, a novation drumstation....and rebirth. they all sound like a 909 to a point until you actually plug in a real 909 and listen to it hit....holy shit it will jar your teeth. the drumstation sounds like a 909....to a point....and it cant sound 100% like a 909
cause it doesnt actually produce the sound the way the 909 does...but im rambling... sorry for the friction octal.....later...k.d.

[extalin]

Originally posted by Kid Dynamite
the real question is...if you had all the hardware....would you use it???? and when you get done at the end of the day...what do you really know about production....i can run reason...but can you run my midi rig??? i doubt it....

actually i prefer to produce using a combination of synthesized / sampled tracks with tracks produced by real instruments...

ive been producing music (not necessarily very good music) for about 4 years now and only the last year has been involved with electronic stuff. so, up until recently what i know about producing is mostly related to recording (yes with microphones, mixers, instruments), wave editing/mixing and drum loop creation (yes with a computer). but not all... when i first started out i was using hammerhead for making drum loops and goldwave for recording my guitar (cheap samick direct inputted from a zoom 510 pedal into my cheap soundblaster 128 - NASTY). well, goldwave wasn't multitrack capable and i didn't know about other software at the time (give me a break... i was what... 14 - 15?? i didnt know anyone who knew a damn about anything related to music production. i figured all this out along the way). so, i had to start a drum loop (yes that i made) playing in goldwave and recorded the guitar part i wanted into another file (i just used the drum loop as a metronome since i was going to mix the two together anyway oh and goldwave doesnt have a metronome). Then, go back and zoom in on the waveform finding the approximate place where i thought the guitar started (or at least the point that would make it sync correctly when i mixed it with the drum track). then i would do a little math with the windows calculator and figure out exactly how long a certain number of measures would be for a certain tempo and piece together different drum loops together to get a drum track that would fit the guitar track. then i would manually mix the drum tracks in with the guitar tracks and make little crappy songs...

well since then, i have taught myself a hell of a lot, read many articles, and collected as much gear as i could afford... now what i do to produce is make all the tracks i want in reason (or whatever), export each track seperately (minus reason's effects) to 24 bit 96khz wave (why would i do that???) and edit each one in a wave editor (sound forge right now, but i need to check out wavelab) then apply much better effects than what is available in reason (i.e. anwida soft, waves, steinberg ME, etc.). then i load up a rough mix of what ive done in reason into cakewalk and record all my audio tracks in 24bit 96khz in Cakewalk sonar (using a high quality analog mixer with parametric eq's, condenser microphones, dynamic mics, XLR, rca, insert, etc.). then, i go edit each recorded track seperately in sound forge. After all that mess, i load up all the seperate tracks from reason and the ones i recorded into cakewalk and get it mixed good (because i dont own a 20grand DAW... my mixer, audiophile 2496, and cakewalk will have to do for now). And finally load that mix into soundforge and apply the finishing touches (like multiband compression, final touch of look ahead limiting, etc.), Then i apply highpass triangular dither to 16 bit and highpass contour noise shaping and lastly resample to 44.1khz with anti aliasing.

that is an extremely brief description of my ghetto rigged method of producing using what i have available.

im not saying im good, i know i am not a pro (far from it)... i am learning new stuff all the time. but i do know something about producing and thats because i like it a lot and i spend a lot of time doing it and reading about it. i hope i have the opportunity one day to use all the hardware and software that i can only dream about right now.

to answer the rest of your questions:

yes i would use the hardware.
no offense, but i think i could handle your midi rig.

come on now, lighten up. we all love to make music here, and what really decides what you use to produce is a combination of what is available and what you like, not how much of an uber producer you are. there is no "correct way to produce". so lets all be friends and hopefully we can learn a lot from each other because i know ive got a long way to go and even if i didn't i'd be stupid to think i knew everything. :) peace.

[Kid Dynamite]

the part about handling my midi rig was directed to octal...not you. and me and him discussed why. its much more difficult to hook up all the midi lines, audio lines,set midi settings,and then be creative than to just pull up a program and its all done for you for the most part. you already know this. most kids dont know that you can sync up your gear via MTC and have the best of both worlds. i come across a little jaded sometimes cause ive heard a lot of people talk shit and know nothing. and i knew i would find the people who really knew what was up by instantly saying the obvious....just cause you DOWNLOADED reason, fruity loops, sound forge...you are not a producer. ive met kids and they told me they produced, and i asked them what midi was.... they looked at me and were clueless. i cant stand it when people say something and cant back it up. you guys can. thats my whole point. i dont mind teaching people, but they have to be able to say they want to learn. i knew that the way i said what i did would scare off the people playing and the people producing would respond. there is only 3 or 4 people in this thread. how many people do you hear say that they are this or that at a party? why arent they talking now? sorry extalin if i offended you... sounds like me an you can talk shop. and it sounds like octal is learning a shitload. here is a question for both of you... why doesnt atlanta have any dance labels in town? ive wondered this for a while and i want to know what you guys think about this...


oh yeah....heres what i meant about it not taking an hour to learn my midi rig....

mpc 2000 studio plus
juno 106
juno 60
tr-909
akai ax-60
korg polysix
oberheim matrix 1000
linndrum
homemade tb-303...yes i made it
casio sampling workstation
korg electribe ea-1
next superbass 1.1
novation drumstation
roland jv-880
kenton midi-cv converter
akai midi controllable 6 in- 6 out 7 band eq
akai midi patchbay
2 alesis 3630 compressors
1 behringer tube composer
1 behringer efx processor
1 alesis quadraverb
behringer 2650 24 input mixer
studiomaster 18 input pa mixer
2 tech 1200's
vestax ms-5000 dj mixer w/midi sync
1 rane 5 band parametric eq
2 shure mics w/stand
and a lifetime stock share in radio shack

its enough when you add the computer.....maybe we could trade some remix work around on here...whatcha think?

later...k.d.

PS......EXTALIN......the distortion in hammerhead is STILL the best software distortion ive ever found....ill take a loop from soundforge and run it through HH just to get that limited as hell sound!!

[dj cmr]

well aside from Kid Dynamite, does any one accually have "studio" sound hooked up to their pc or hardware, or are you using your pc speakers? I'm just starting to play around with shit and learn some software and play with alittle hardware myself.

I ask this not be be an asshole but to give some insite. If youv'e ever brought a dub to play a gig and realized oh that sounds like shit, "did I make that?" this is why. real studio reference monitors make all the difference in producing quality music. you can have all the software and hardware you want but with nothing to really hear it on...it will come like shit, or nat as good as it could.

just my input on the whole subject.

[Kid Dynamite]

true dat! studio monitors are a must!!!! the other reason your dub "sounds like shit" is it has not been mixed down right to begin with. i have had monitors for 5 years now and i have struggled to figure out how mixdown engineers got the sound to be up in your face. how many times have you made a track then took it out and there was no bass and everything was so thin sounding.....what is the answer to this question??? LEARN ABOUT COMPRESSION AND HOW TO DO IT RIGHT. TOO MUCH AND TOO LITTLE ARE BOTH BAD. too much comp. and your dynamics are flat....the speakers just sit there and cant move to its full range....too little and your not sending enough signal to the speaker in the first place.....later....k.d.

[OCTAL]

Well it's not like I've never used midi equipment, I've just never used a real 303 or 909, or a Korg, for long enough to know everything about it. But if you mean hooking up a midi synth to Reason, then yea I do that sometimes. I just don't have room where my comp is to leave it hooked up. I haven't even had time to use Reason for about a month. :) But when I get done with the project I'm working on, I'll link you guys to it.

[Kid Dynamite]

look foward to hearing it octal.....i had the problem in the past of not enough room.....finally bought a house and soundproofed the entire basement living room......i have everything in the room hooked up but the smaller tabletop shit. ill have to post some pictures if my rig......i made the entire case at work....im a CNC machinist/programmer and the people at my job are nice enough to let me use there cnc machines in my off time....later...k.d.


ps....octal....no one learns everything.....thats silly! you should just strive to know enough so if someone asks you how to do something...you know where to go to learn it...

[OCTAL]

Well what I meant was that I'm a pretty fast learner. If I sit with it long enough I'll figure it out. :)

[extalin]

sorry i took that personal KD. its all good. id love to see all your gear and it sounds like you could teach me a thing or two. i see where you are coming from now about people who say they are producers just because they have a few pieces of software... and why it upset you because as i see it seems like you have definitely put hard work into getting your equipment and learning how to use it :). i am all up for collaborating or remixing some stuff because its fun first of all, and also, when you work with someone else you learn new techniques (from both people that know a lot more than you and people who dont know nearly as much). as for the dance label... i dont know, but atlanta isnt exactly small on the map when it comes to labels... maybe its time we started one up. i've been interested in starting a label for as long as i can remember and now that ive fallen in love with electronic music that is more of the direction i am headed in now. i think we should get together and talk about it because from reading your posts you obviously know what you are talking about and ive got a good start and am all about some learning. :cool:

for dj cmr:
for monitoring i dont have any studio monitors :( (hopefully soon), but i use some homebuilt 3-way monitors that i put together (including building the crossover networks) and they sound ok (better than most consumer speakers but still not studio quality). my amp is pretty good though... it has SPDIF input, so that is nice (it even accepts up to 96khz but the dsp's dont work then... not really a problem except i need a little eq for my monitors since they dont have a very flat frequency response). since i didn't have the money to get good monitors, i bought some good studio headphones (akg 240s) and they are really nice (the only thing i dont like about them is they roll off too soon on the low end). anyway between listening on the headphones and my monitors i can get a pretty good sounding mix. i cant wait till i get some high quality D/A converters and some nice monitors (maybe some mackie hr824's :D)

[Kid Dynamite]

its ok extalin....im a bit of a spaz at times....ive been trying to think of ways to have a dance label here in atl....maybe even a collective label of all the people interested in distribution here in atlanta....i guess we have to pull our resources and see what we can pull off.....to begin with...we need to find out who is interested.....maybe we should start a new thread. later....k.d.

[BreaksCasperATL]

Well, I have the pc and my boy has the studio gear. We make it work though......


Dell Dimension 8200

Sound Forge 6.0

Acid 3.0

Reason 1.0

Oxygen 8 Midi Controller

MPC 3000

Roland JP-8000

Virus keyboard

Fat Filter

etc...etc...

[fujisawa]

Whowants some burnt poopcorn!>?!!!

[Handle]

did y9oiu soay burnt bopdcorn i love burnt papcorn

[Torrent]

quit tainting the thread with moronicy
drunk bastards

[djentropy]

It's all about VSTis

:)

[Noise]

Actually ive used quite a few programs and I think ive found my groove in an odd spot. Right now im recording with BIAS' Peak which is suprisingly good when BIAS' deck blows. And Im using Adobe Premiere (a video program) to mix with cause v6.0 has 99 audio tracks. Its really easy to use and supports all standard khz. Not only that you can use almost any audio file type. I know this sounds wacky but it works and damn let me tell you its so easy!!! Its like building with lego blocks. And whatever it cant do, Peak can. The only thing I think of thats bad is that sometimes it cant handle it and will lock up. I havnt figured out why yet. Ive got almost all of my RAM allocated to it, the only bit left over is for the OP system... Any one know a fix?

My Hardware :
867 mghz dual G4 Mac
512 megs -o- ram
An audiophile midi card that also supports standard audio
Yamaha DJX2 (yeah they seem corny but you can do alot with them)
Yamaha AN200 (desktop synth 1 of 3 in the loopfactory setup, yeah I do plan on getting the others.)
Crate 100 watt amp with dsp
Ibanez RG series guitar

-next purchases are going to be Behrringer's Euromixer and A new condensor mic.

BTW yamaha makes shitty guitars and drums but their synths, drum machines, and samplers are fucking great. I highly recomend their products.

Im about $500.00 away from having my own studio .... damn let me tell you its hard work but Im sure the rest of you (majority) can relate.