Download

[Tmouse]

****THIS IS FOR DISCUSSION ONLY****

If you have a problem with this, fine...Please make this a discussion...Otherwise, take your whine to the butt cheeze of Metallica...


NOW...


With all the controversey with Napster and other music download sites on the internet, I want to know why do you think the music industry is in an uproar...Take your vote above...Tell your feelings on the noose around free music exchange...

I personally dont download music for the same reason I dont take pills...You can never tell what you are going to get or what quality it is going to be...That is it...If I want a track, I will go pay for it...I do this out of respect to the artist that made the track...Do I side with the music industry??? Yes, I do...As much as you can blow air in my face, it is still piracy...Pirating does a play a positive role on the economy no matter what the government says...Napster was a great idea, and it was going to be a good thing...If Napster was left to independant artists releasing their projects, we would still have Napster...As with most humans in this world, getting something for free when you can buy it at anytime is more appealing to do...

Now that I have thrown that bug in your ear think of it this way...How would you feel if someone ripped off your house and took all your dj/producing equipment, vinyl, and other stuff that belongs to you??? Shortly after the theft, you go to a freinds house to find some of your stuff...You dont know if he/she stole themselves, but to find out they got it for free when you have spent all that money to buy your equipment, would that make you pissed off???



****THIS IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE MUSIC INDUSTRY, NOT IS IT A RIGHT TO DOWNLOAD MUSIC FOR FREE****

[dr00]

:rolleyes:


i would have posted something better but we can't discuss what we're discussing....

[piq]

How would you feel if someone ripped off your house and took all your dj/producing equipment, vinyl, and other stuff that belongs to you???

Arr, ye ole piracy / theft analogy. If I go and steal a car, that car is no longer there for its owner. However, if I were to be able to make a copy of it, the owner would have his car and I would also have my own "version" of it.

Of course, it is never so simple. By downloading copyrighted tracks I AM of course violating the law and drawing profit from artist and record companies... or am I?

When napster was up, I was buying more CDs than ever. A friend would tell me to check out so-and-so, I'd download some tracks and if I liked them, gladly buy the CD.
Not everyone did this, of course, and a lot of people probably just downloaded and burned music instead of buying it.

So maybe the current system is outdated? Record companies theoretically exist to bring music from the artist to the listener, but now there is technology available that will do this faster, cheaper and more accurate.

What if instead of buying a CD at the store, you could download the entire album for $3 and still buy the media through the artist? It's not that far fetched, the technology is there. Of course, this would mean the record companies would be out on their asses unless they can restructure to the new model REALLY quick.

Maybe that won't be the case, maybe record companies will just go belly up along with all the major artists they push, leaving the market to small-time musicians and people who just do it for the love.

Not all change is bad, but the fact that of $17 spent on a CD at the store only $2 goes to all the creative influences (including graphic design and text) is reason enough for me to pirate music en masse and feel wonderful about it. =)

[piq]

[Matthew Skye]

Not all change is bad, but the fact that of $17 spent on a CD at the store only $2 goes to all the creative influences (including graphic design and text) is reason enough for me to pirate music en masse and feel wonderful about it. =)

Good Point.

[OCTAL]

Not sure if any of you have read THIS (http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html), but it sure does explain how I feel. Read the follow up too.



If I download a track, I'm downloading it to see if I like it. I'm that little boy who has to have everything brand new, nothing used. So if I like what I've sampled as an MP3, then I'm gonna go out and buy the CD (order it online from the other side of the world). Now that I can't download as much as I used to, I'm not buying any CDs. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has done this since the close of Napster and AG. I'm sure the numbers are up in the 10s, maybe hundreds of thousands. Ouch, I think they're losing money this way. BUT I'm ALSO sure that there were PLENTY of people too broke to buy the CD and would just settle for low quality mp3's (this also made the industry lose money).

So what could be a solution? Only supplying low quality mp3's for free download. Low quality so that you could try it out and see if you like it enough to actually PAY for it.
No one wants to go blindly in and pay almost $20 for a fucking CD that they've NEVER heard of.

Would you go buy a $20,000 vehicle that you couldn't see from the inside or outside, or hear the engine run, or test-drive BEFORE you bought it?! No, you wouldn't.

So I think free downloading of low quality mp3's HELPS the music industry.

BUT it also depends on WHICH part of the Music Industry you're talking about. If you're talking about Rock music, you've got their songs being played on the radio (which they're getting royalties for). They're well known and they're concerts and live shows are making shit loads of money. And then they have CDs selling for all the fans. No trouble there if they're tickets are selling and their songs are on the radio.

But if you look at the EDM side of things: Not much radio play. They rely on the hundreds of thousands of amateur and pro DJs around the world to buy records. They buy the records and then millions of other people are hearing those tracks on a weekend and maybe daily basis. The audience likes, does some research, goes and buys the Cd in the store, or orders it online. So the Producers are making money off their record sales AND the kids who like their stuff and go buy it, AND the $$ they get for live shows. And in this particular part of the industry, free downloads of music are encouraged. Why? Because most of the people downloading are sampling stuff they want to purchase later as a record to play for hundreds of people. So as long as they're actually playing at clubs or whatever and buying records, the Producers included will reap the benefits.


So what happens to the unknown bands, the unknown producers?
WELL, these are the people who need free mp3 downloading the MOST.
Say you have some kid looking around the net, searching for a certain TYPE of music, they find one of these unknown bands/producers, downloads, listens, and likes. They're gonna promote the hell out of them. Why? How? Because they want all their friends to know how cool so-and-so is, they just downloaded this band's stuff that they didn't know who the hell they were, they like the shit. Well the grapevine comes into play, sometime more advanced than other ways of the traditional grapevine (mentioning the band/producer on their personal websites, profiles; requesting DJs at their club to play song by so-and-so, etc...).

So the wheel turns, the free downloading helps more than it hurts. But if it's still hurting too much, they need to try the lower quality mp3 thing. For sampling purposes. Right?

OK, that concludes my big long fat "read the first and last lines only" post. :)

[OCTAL]

No one's going to respond? Or did I convince everybody? :)

[jungleFLOW420]

Originally posted by OCTAL
No one's going to respond? Or did I convince everybody? :)

i hear you man don't worry all of that typing was not wasted, I do agree with you, but you didnt have to convince me...

now....with "mainstream TRL worthless bullshit" "music", I dont really see what the use of downloading what you can hear on the radio at least once an hour.

but when it comes to most of the music that , for instance, I like, I would have a hard time getting most of my jungle/d and b on cd without having to wait a while for it to be sent via mail and having to pay a shitload in the process (lets not even get on the subject that CD's are WAAAAAAAAY overpriced anyways). Not to mention that much of it is pretty hard to find no matter what.

and i can't forget to mention that since I entered the real world and moved outta momma's house, I often have $20 to my name at the end of the week, how in the hell am I gonna buy a damned cd? I work hard for my $, and I should be able to listen to music even if I can't afford to buy a FUCKING OVERPRICED piece of plastic. I have much less of a problem spending .50 on a blank cd and wait around for a lil while for my shit to download. Call it selfish, but I love my music and should be able to listen to it.

[piq]

Word to that, I too agree with you Octal. However, I think there will always be a "market" for high-quality MP3s (192 kbps and up.)

I've always spent a fixed amount of money on music, but as these things go, I want AS MUCH OF IT AS POSSIBLE. Hence, if I have the spare cash to buy one cd per month and am able to download as much music as I desire, I'll probably still buy that single CD... but I will also accumulate a LOT of good music in the process.

Do the record companies lose money from this? I would never buy all the music that I download, if just for financial reasons. The only difference is WHICH one cd/record/whatever I buy when I do spend money.

With more music to chose from, that decision will probably arise from what music I like... i.e., instead of buying what is advertised in XLR8R / URB / whatever, picking up a potentially obscure cd/artist.

Hence, we're taking power from the major labels by bypassing the advertising and going purely by sound...

I think that's a GREAT thing, they do not. Unfortunately, they have a much larger legal staff than we do. Fortunately, we are more knowledgeable about technology than they will ever be.

[piq]

[OCTAL]

Yes, gald you guys agree. And even more true, the Record companies aren't the ones making money off a CD. It's the retail stores. Those records go to the stores for about $5-8 a piece. And then they sell those for at least twice that.

Good discussion, now why won't Tim respond? He made this thread. Does he agree or is he proofreading his debate? :)

[jabber]

actually Octal...not all retail stores get the cd's that cheap. Smaller stores pay more for the same cd that places like best buy and media play pay for the cd.

[Mr. MuthaFucka]

i download lots of music....and i see the point that you all are trying to make...but the music i download goes onto a cd and stays in my car.....the unrealeased tracks i get dont go anywhere but there........i would see you bein pissed off at ppl if they were downloading whole cd's then selling them.....but i still buy alot of cds.... :)

[chrimead10]

what?

downloading music and burning it onto cd is against the law?

go firgure - so is pot.

get over it and go your own way.

there will always be things like this that are illegal that people still do. things like these define generations. people like us don't really accomplish much, we aren't in control and that's the bottom line.

people will still buy cd's, they have to. how do you think the tracks are originally turned into mp3's? duh.

the key to finding a solution is not getting pissed off about it and spouting off about how it is illegal and all that. i think the answer lies at little five points - SATELLITE RECORDS.

no dj is going to bitch about his/her originals open to anyone who wants to listen, because if they like it then they will fucking buy it. it's an extremely effecient tradition and makes me a happy dj every time i go there, because i know what i am getting.

now why don't we start a thread about how recording promo mixes is illegal? it would make just as much sense.

--- this is not meant to offend anyone though it is meant to sound very sarcastic and such, gee oh well ---

by the way, i download, so sue me! i'd also like to mention that i have original tracks to download IN FULL on my site at (plug) www.djchrismeadows.com and i don't fucking care!

[Ncturnal]

Originally posted by piq

Not all change is bad, but the fact that of $17 spent on a CD at the store only $2 goes to all the creative influences (including graphic design and text) is reason enough for me to pirate music en masse and feel wonderful about it. =)

[piq]

They are very lucky if they get that much. Only a really big time artist would stand a chance at that.

[wetlook]

why doesn't every person just put a specific % of his/her paychecks to fill the paychecks of the producers/labels/graphic designer/musicians and such? we might as well just all equally divide our incomes for the benifit of everyone, and distribute music freely.....wait, then we'd argue more, over who should get more of this and of that, plus isn't that getting towards something like communism. i'd say this discussion is a good one, but there are always going to be the people who just let their friends borrow a CD for a while, and that alone, if everyone were to do it that way, and their 'friend' did not buy the CD, that would cut the music industry's potential sales down by half(now i'm just guestimating that, of course). i think that just so long as some sort of balance is maintained between how much music is allowed to be pirated/shared, and how many millions of CDs are actually sold, then we'll all be ok, and the not so well off people can enjoy the miracle of music, along with the fatter walleted!

well, thats my version of things!
wetlook

[dr00]

if you're making music to make money, you shouldn't be making music
there are thousands of other ways to make money
you should be making music to make MUSIC

being a producer myself, i can honestly say that if everyone dowloaded all my songs and i never saw a cent, i wouldn't care, however if someone were to try and make money off of my music, i would care...
if i made money, it'd just be a bonus really, i like to share music with everyone
i mean, if i bought a CD, and my roommate listened to it everyday, is that stealing too? people used to make copies of tapes all the time for people, sharing music isn't anything new

[otto]

one thing that always ticked me off about their figures is the amount of money they are losing due to piracy. they figure in that everyone who downloaded a track or CD counts as a single unit worth of sales they lost.

the problem being is that it was never guaranteed that the person was going to buy the CD in the first place. you cannot gauge loss of sales based on the maximum number of possible sales. thats the biggest misleading figure about piracy that i know of...

i have a very biased opinion, as i've had one too many friends either been arrested for software piracy or raided for software piracy. each of the big headlining busts over the last two and a half years has seen someone i had known for years be either arrested or investigated... depressing.

otto

[DJ Logix]

I can see how it would affect different types of music in different types of ways. One being POP and Rap and MTv mainstream stuff would lose some money prolly alot due to file exchanging. I think EDM or most of it on the other hand benefits a whole lot from it. I know for a fact that many people get exposed to the music that might not have been if it wrent for file exchanging. It builds a fanbase for artist different from an artists whole fanbase downloading their music.

Its good for us bad for them. Good for EDM bad for Nelly, Britney, and others.

[Obi's Evil Twin]

Like someone said earlier in this thread, I download a shitload of free music, but, if I find something I like, I'll buy the CD. For example, I downloaded some High Contrast (bad-ass drum and bass producer) tracks and liked them so much that I went and bought his new album, "True Colors". I never would have bought it if it wasn't for music downloading.

[moka]

High Contrast rules. that is all

[StolenStarlight]

I am just going to sort of reiterate what has already been said in my own words...

I feel like if they would price cd's at a REASONABLE price then I wouldn't download, but until I see that they can honestly kiss my ass.

I mean seriously, do I care if some corrupt-fat-fuck in a business suit sitting at the top of the music industry food chain is loosing a billion dollars in profit? No. I don't. It's not so much the artists loosing as it is these people. They want to whine and cry because they're only making x amount of billions a year instead of what they were before??? Fuck that. Make cd's $8-$10 a pop and Ill buy. And those fucks would still be billionaires! I think it's just ridiculous.

[Synergy]

It takes 10000 downloads of a SINGLE song from a CD to effect one song. ONE SONG there are billions of songs in the world.

lets say idk...like 2billion (2,000,000,000,000) x the number of downloads it takes to affect one person (10000)=20,000,000,000,000,000 downloads to affect an entire album...thats more downloads than copies an album WILL EVER SELL.


yup.